I (22M) was having a conversation with my brother (19M) about race that became heated. For background, we’re both born and raised in Ireland but both our parents are born in South Africa and neither of them are mixed with anything.
While at work, my brother was asked by a white Irish stranger where he was from and he said he was from Ireland. The stranger asked again where he was from originally and my brother replied he was from Ireland, until the man persisted and asked where his parents were from.
When he told me the story I told him he should’ve just said he was South African and been proud of his heritage. We got into a heated conversation when I told him he’s South African and he got very angry. I understand we’re both born here in Ireland but culturally, ethnically and biologically we are South Africans.
I explained that we can claim both but really if we did a ancestry or DNA test it would come back as South African and he got really vexed. I felt I was stating the obvious and now we’re not on speaking terms. AITA for this and if so how should we describe where we’re from without giving our whole life story.
Well, he clearly identifies himself as Irish given that he’s lived in Ireland all his life. That man’s question was very rude, btw. You don’t ask strangers their whole ancestry just because they look not typically Irish.
YTA. The stranger asked where he was from. Hes from Ireland. He was born in Ireland. He is Irish. He was raised in Ireland so imagine his culture is also mostly Irish.
The man then asked parents to make a racist point of “oh youre not really Irish” which is a common racist gatekeeping method.
If I moved to America and had kids in America who were raised in America (I’m British) it would be wild for someone to go “oh no you’re not American where are your parents from” to one of those kids. Except it would never happen to a white person in the US or Ireland would it?
DNA has nothing to do with your nationality.
youve never fking lived in south africa. you’re irish, south african by descent.
YTA.
If your brother was born in Ireland and he believes that he is from Ireland than he is from Ireland. No matter what his skin color is. Don’t be a racist.
YTA identities are stories and people get to write their own stories. Biologically we’re all from Africa.
I think this is funny because I hear it from especially the Irish on here all the time that of you have Irish heritage but were born in the states you are not Irish. So funny an Irishman is telling his brother they are South African despite being born in Ireland.
YTA Your brother is doing what is right for him. He’s also melting people’s minds who think that black people aren’t Irish. He’s taking on stereotypes and should be encouraged to do so.
YTA.
He is Irish.
First of all, culture and ethnicity are social constructs with no objective definitions. Especially culture has more to do with where and how someone was raised rather than where his parents were born.
To adress your DNA argument, at the end of the day we are all Africans, who emigrated to different directions thousands of years ago.
He is born and raised in ireland. He has every right to consider himself Irish and not S. African. You insisting against that makea you a huge asshole.
YTA. He was born and raised in Ireland, he owes no one his origin story. His answer should suffice.
I have the same issue because I’m mixed. People ask a question and then they’re not satisfied with the answer. I’m not about to sit there and divulge my complicated family history just to appease mild racism.
Besides, how far are we meant to go? Is a person only allowed to list one country of origin if their ancestors have been there for 3 generations? 15 generations?!
YTA. If you’re born and raised in Ireland you’re Irish regardless of you skin colours. Let’s be honest here, if you were American, Swedish or German originally you wouldn’t be having this discussion. At the core, it’s about the colour of your skin, and you need to accept that no one’s identity is tied to physical appearance.
YTA. Some people just think it’s rude for people to ask this, the Irish person is asking him “How may I exclude you?” Also, I don’t know what you mean when you say he’s “culturally” South African there’s nothing wrong with him feeling culturally Irish.
He’s telling you the facts of how he identifies and what country he is loyal to.
YTA for trying to convince him he’s wrong
YTA. Your brother can decide for himself how to answer this type of question. The person asking was also an AH for basically saying “you’re black so you can’t be Irish.”
YTA. And so is the guy who was grilling your brother.
In your comments you keep saying things like “I feel steeped in SA culture” and “I feel it would be wrong…” that’s how *you* feel. You’re entitled to your feelings and so is your brother.