**Who:** I am friends with a group of folks: 5 of us are in a group chat together, Debbie, Mark, Sam, Lucy, and Me. Debbie lives with Gary who I am also friends with. Gary is also friends with the 3 other people in this group chat, albeit to a lesser extent.
**The Problem:** Gary has asked to join the group chat. Debbie does not want him to because she lives with him.
**Background:** Gary has also ruffled a lot of folks’ feathers. He usually talks only about himself, makes situations that are not about him about him, and is constantly getting into toxic relationships.
I worry that just because Gary is not close with folks doesn’t mean he needs to live in his home with his friend Debbie while not being allowed in the group chat and we all hang out without him.
The group chat all gossips about Gary behind his back when we are together.
Gary has asked to join the group chat and while I initially hesitated, I want to apologize to him and confront the group chat to make this situation stop and bring him into the friend group.
**TLDR;** WIBTA? Is it fair of me to force a friendship on others? I feel like I need to defend Gary in order to be a good friend to him, but how can I defend him when he has also done some bad things and the group chat isn’t interested in being his friend.
Reddit please help!
**EDIT #1:** Clarity on how Gary is perceived — several folks in this group chat, me included, have discussed how Gary is not present with them when they hang out. Gary is always on the phone texting someone else, and talking about himself. All folks in the group chat view Gary as self-involved. I still don’t think that makes it right to exclude him, am I wrong?
**EDIT #2:** I already feel like an AH to Gary, I am trying to resolve it though it may not be resolvable.
**EDIT #3:** Debbie and Gary got into a fight over this, and Debbie is mad at me for not getting involved and hearing her side of the story out. I told her I don’t know how to be a good friend to both her and Gary.
ESH. Debbie already lives with him and sounds like she’s trying to implement a boundary. It sounds like he’s toxic himself, and the rest of you need to grow up and not gossip about someone else while you’re all together with said person. Maybe have an actual in person conversation as a group about dynamics, if Gary is actually anyone’s friend.
I don’t know it is hard to force a friendship on someone it may end up in them just creating a new group
I feel like I should just let them form a new group without me if I really want to be a loyal friend to Gary though. I feel like I am a shit one at the moment 🙁
Don’t be the martyr for Gary. You can’t force a friendship, and adding someone everyone finds exhausting to a private chat is a recipe for it blowing up in your face. You’d be the asshole for ignoring the established group dynamic to play hero. Being a good friend to Gary means hanging out with him one-on-one, not forcing him into a space where he’s already the subject of gossip. I tried to integrate a friend like that once—ended up with no group chat and a lot of resentment.
>For more clarity on Gary’s behavior, if relevant, several folks in this group chat, me included, have discussed how Gary is..
>The group chat all gossips about Gary behind his back when we are together
>**He usually talks only about himself, makes situations that are not about him about him, and is constantly getting into toxic relationships**
Your group is the toxic relationship, not Gary.
The 5 of you sit there in your group chat, tearing him down, when he isn’t there to defend himself. You’re the gossipers. You’re making his business your business. And now you want to bring him into the Cool Kids group.. why? Because you’re having a moment of conscience.
Bringing Gary into the groupchat has nothing to do with Gary. It’s all about your gossipy group, and you. If Gary knew what you all have been saying all this time, he’d move out of Debbie’s place, and never see any of you again.
YTA
Right, so should I just leave the group chat? Is it too late to be a good friend?
Yta it sounds like Gary sucks and nobody else wants to be his friend. Why are you trying to force it?
So, usually this is solved by having a Gary Group Chat and a non-Gary Group Chat, but there may also need to be a Gary & You Group Chat and a non-Gary & You Group Chat.
You can’t force people to be in a group chat.
YTA.
nta for asking if he can join but yta if you continue to push it. honestly, I’ve read this at least twice and am so confused about what’s actually going on. it sounds like you think couples should be included in everything together but that’s not the case even when they are married.
ESH
Y’all need to be adults and TALK to Gary about why y’all don’t want him in the group chat.
OR…make a GC with Gary but only add those that talk to him.
IDK, but y’all need to really need to talk to him.
Why did Gary even know there was a group chat he wasn’t part of? That was everyone’s first mistake — making enough of a deal of a private chat that someone new started asking to join.
The answer, as another commenter wrote, is to start a new group chat that includes Gary, but OP, you said you’ve already done that and Gary still wants in on the original chat. Why did you tell him the new chat was different from the old one??
Group chats are for convenience, when you want to message people in a common friend group or subsets of friends with similar interests. I have five or six chats with different cross-sections of friends from just one friend group. If you stop telling people the details of who’s in what group chat and just message the particular friends you want to talk to at any given time, this wouldn’t be an issue.
Gary knows this because he is a roommate with Debbie.
The group chat all hangs out together. We do dinners, we did a cookie party, etc. so Gary found out how Debbie is hanging out with the group chat people all the time and he isn’t.
ESH. Why are you “friends” with someone that obviously none of you like? You say he’s toxic, not present, and that everyone talks bad about him BEHIND HIS BACK! None of you sound like friends, you sound like The Plastics from Mean Girls.