I’m currently a working mother who was a SAHM. In the recent decade I’ve noticed a drastic shift of not only men devaluing women who are in the home and desire such but also the benefits to their future children.
Look, I get it. Times are tough and I totally hear the concerns coming from every side. When men are describing these roles I often hear perspectives that have nothing to do with raising children.
In example, a commenter said he doesn’t want a woman who watches Netflix in pajamas all day. Is that what men truly believe raising children at home is like? Another said he makes over 250k and will still require the mother of his children to work full time. What is the striving for wealth for if not to secure those that carry your legacy?
I guess what I’m trying to unpack here is why is there such a disconnect between men and the needs of their future children. It’s like children are an after thought. An accessory to a planned out life. It literally never comes up in any dating discussion. I don’t hear men say I want this type of woman because I want my daughters to have xyz to model after. I don’t hear men say I grew up in an unsafe environment so it’s important beyond finances that my children are safe in our home and well cared for.
What’s really happening here ?
I think you are talking to the wrong men.
>When men are describing these roles I often hear perspectives that have nothing to do with raising children.
Are you talking about online or in person? The online gender wars are toxic and the worst takes get amplified the most.
If you’re a SAHM, a good place to start asking might be your husband. Is this something he believes or sees in his peers?
Edit: Also, it sounds like most of the conversations you are references are men imagining what a future with children might be like, rather than men who are actually contending with the reality of raising a family. I’ve met very few people, man or woman, who don’t harbor some silly ideas about what being a parent actually entails.
I’m wondering if it’s because a lot of men haven’t gotten as far as believing any woman would want to ever be with them. But there are still men who are confident in themselves, and have subconsciously decided already that they will be a father one day.
I make enough in my job that my wife could likely be a SAHM to our 3 kids. That being said we both grew up with very little and her income as a nurse affords us the difference between a decent lifestyle and one that we can provide our kids with the things that we didn’t get growing up.
That, and kids all of our friends who have a stay at home partner have kids who don’t get enough socialization and are either incredibly poorly behaved or are downright weird. There is also a developmental benefit for your kids to be in an environment around their peers.
I don’t hear many women saying they want to earn $250k so that the father can stay at home to watch the children.
I mean I do, and I wouldn’t ever expect my husband to be a stay at home dad. Why make 250 when we can make 400 together? I don’t get her mindset either
I think OP has a certain life goal (be a stay at home mom) but wants it to be a universal goal (obviously everybody should want women to be SAHMs). Instead of acknowledging her personal preferences it then turns into “Won’t you think of the children!” to blame people who have different goals.
Why is it the man’s job to financially provide for them, shouldn’t it be 50/50 by her rationale? I dont believe children are truly 50 ever. I’m the mom and I am just going to be ensure they have the best life, if that means I work and don’t get to be a stay at home mom the be it. If that means I watch them while I work all day and cook dinner after, I’ll do that too. It’s about doing it everything you can for kids.
I’m a working mother who works 2 full time jobs and has 2 under 2 at home. I still cook, clean, work and take care of the kids. My husband appreciates it and appreciates me. I don’t have to work. I don’t have to have the kids at home. I don’t have to clean or make dinner. I do these things because I like contributing to the family as well as creating a safe home for my children. You can do both.
I would say the difficulty of being SAHM isn’t linear. The post partum is hell, until a certain age. But a while after especially after kids are of school age, it’s way easier than working.
Are you just arguing against a strawman?
I am very active in my kids life, I make 90% of meals, when they were young I woukd take then out every Sunday morning so my wife could have some quiet time to herself even though there was no time for me to get the same. We share in most of the chores, but it’s not equal. Her job makes it easier to take time off when needed to do childcare or running around, and I work more hours. I will still take time off work to see their year end shows etc.
The problem is you’re often hearing from people who are talking about hypotheticals, or you’re hearing from people in unhappy partnerships who need to vent online. Some women do sit and scroll on their phone or watch TV all day. Some are dealing with the kids all day. Some can deal with the kids and can manage to keep the home clean. Some don’t pay attention to the kids and can’t even clean up after themselves. Its going to depend on the woman, and the kids, and the environment.
Why is there a disconnect between “men” and the needs of their future children? Well, first what “men”? the random text on social media? Next, when you’re talking future children, these men may only have “future” children because they’re not a person anyone wants to breed with to begin with.
I mean this is about as useful as a man complaining about his future wife based on snippets he heard on the whatever podcast. Just find a man who isn’t like that and don’t judge men based on the ones who are noisy because they can’t find a partner.
The “roles” discussion is all over the place these days. No wonder everyone is confused.
I can only speak for my preference. But ideally I would love to marry a woman who is home and family oriented. Raising children and keeping a home is a shitload of work. I’m the oldest of several siblings and have been a babysitter for many years in my teens. I know how hard it is.
Rather than 50/50, I’d rather be in a couple partnership that is more efficient. For instance, if I am spending most of my time working on my career or earning money, that’s more money for the both of us and takes a lot of stress away. Plus I fucking suck at most home keeping shit. I’m slow, disorganized and inefficient. But I can work in an office or labor jobs around the clock if I needed to.
And it’s not just the economics of it. I genuinely find women who are more domestic far more attractive and fucking hot. And I know nothing is perfect. Dad has to help with the house too, and sometimes mom has to pick up a job even if its part-time. Its a partnership.
I also was raised in a broken home and mostly by a single working mom. I fucking hated it. It put me at a lot of disadvantages in life, and was tough on everyone mentally & emotionally. I had to split my time between parents, be scuffled between school, child care takers, and my life was always in chaos. Mom and Dad were both struggling on their own and always too stressed to be present.
There is a lot of science that backs this up. Children from stable, 2-parent households have far greater outcomes in life. Having one parent home or around is a major advantage. I would work 3 or 4 jobs just to make sure my wife could feel secure and safe and my kids had a stable childhood. As a single guy, I have little motivation to strive for money or to buy a house or save for retirement. But when I think my future family might need me to provide, I am seriously motivated to work my ass off and build the financial stability needed for that yet to be formed family.
I know this isn’t for everyone, and in the US it is hard to find people who have these values, but its what I want. I’m by no means saying 50/50 or 2 parent incomes are bad, its just not what I want. Everyone has to find what works for them.
1. Some of us don’t want kids
2. “What is the striving for wealth for if not to secure those that carry your legacy?” To make my own life easier and better? I thought that was obvious. Bigger house, nicer car, vacations, and most importantly, retirement on my terms.
3. Not all of us want to be sole providers. I was kind of forced into it when my wife was forced out of her job several years ago. While I’ve done my best to adjust, I’ve been transparent about the fact that I absolutely hate it. It puts so much pressure on me, being the only thing separating my family from losing our home. That wears on me in a way that someone who hasn’t been in this position just wouldn’t understand. She will find a new full time job when our son goes to kindergarten next year.
4. Most importantly, we’ve all seen what happens when the mother becomes a SAHM and then there’s a divorce. The father gets absolutely destroyed in court, even if the divorce wasn’t his fault. With divorce still a very real possibility in any marriage, even if it isn’t anyone’s fault, why put yourself in that position? If you’re instead married to your financial equal, you’re not going to end up starting from square one (or worse) if things don’t work out. We’ve also all seen men who are trapped in miserable marriages because they know they’ll have their finances completely ruined if they leave. That’s possibly an even worse fate.
Well, a lot of men resent the degree to which women have this opportunity.
Much of the “gender war” actually happens in these places – women being free to choose both new roles and traditional ones. Men? Not so much.
I also noticed in your post you said *nothing* about the possibility of stay at home dads so much as existing.