This is going back to Christmas but it’s been on my mind for the past week. I was invited to a friend’s for Christmas. Everything was going well until after dinner when my friend and another woman started packing up leftovers. I (F) hate traditional gender roles and have always rebelled against the idea that just because I was born with vagina that I need to clean up after everyone. So I was chatting with the men and kids at the table and my friend started huffing and making passive aggressive remarks. I looked over and asked if they needed help and my friend told me to get in the kitchen. So I was helping out a bit and then my friend started being more passive aggressive. I feel like I’ve lost a friend but honestly don’t know if I did anything wrong. I was a guest at her home and as a guest I thought it was my job to enjoy myself but now I am second guessing. Are women still expected to jump up after dinner and clean up?
N, but your friend needs to see you as a guest.
YTA. As someone who also does not like traditional gender roles and has a whole stay at home husband, you can make your own rules at your own house during your own party. I have a feeling there is more to the story here too.
NTA You were a guest. If she wanted help, she should have asked for help. Why didn’t everyone get up and take their plates to the kitchen?
NTA. Adding in gender roles was completely unnecessary in the post. You’re a guest.
Yta for making this about gender roles. Guests should always offer to clean up-even men. You could have made your point by getting up to help and saying something to the men as well.
We traditionally go to my wife’s brother’s place for Xmas each year. I am a male of the species, and I always make sure to help with the setup, and wash pots/dishes after, letting my wife visit with her family. Most of the family and spouses (male and female) pitch in at some point. The menfolk at your friend’s party need to step up and do their share. NTA, but you may have some hurt feelings to fix.
NTA, guests shouldn’t be expected to help clean up, and certainly shouldn’t be voluntold to ‘get in the kitchen’, regardless of your gender.
YTA. I can’t imagine being invited for a meal at someone’s home, and not offering to at least help set the table before and clear it afterwards. It’s just courtesy and a gesture of thanks for the meal, nothing to do with genitalia.
PS – Stop making this about gender violation. Clearing a table while having a vagina, does not a victim make.
NTA
Guests don’t clean. Anywhere. No matter if female or male.
Fascinating that the solution was to do nothing with the men instead of getting them to help as well. Instead of everyone doing their share, let’s ALL be lazy
Your friend invited you as her guest and should have been gracious to you as her guest. Ideally, she would have never said a word. At most, she might have asked if you would mind helping with X. Her not using her words and being huffy with you was definite aholery on her part.
I’m a little more confused regarding you. You seem to be offering two different defenses. (1) you have an aversion to outdated stereotypes and were not going to just jump to play that part. (2) you thought that, as a guest, you were not expected to jump up and help with the cleaning but to simply enjoy the company of the people there.
I’m not a fan of you using two different explanations for your behavior. Even though you can hold both beliefs, you either intentionally chose not to help and to join the men in a silent swipe at gender roles, OR you obliviously joined the men in conversation because you were playing the role of a guest.
Since your friend had no idea what your motivation was, she needed to give you the benefit of the doubt and just assumed you were really enjoying the conversation with the men. She should have either not asked for help or (ideally) put out a general request for help to the group. “*Would one of you mind going into the kitchen and helping with X*?”
I personally think – man or woman – it is a nice gesture for a guest to ask if they can help with clean up. If their offer is refused, then they are free to sit and and chat with others. You didn’t ask up front, but you did when your friend showed her huffy side… AND you politely went to help despite your friend’s rude behavior.
I also think that being (presumably a first-time) guest at someone’s house is NOT the time to express your defiance of THEIR social norms. It would have been different if this were family and something that has come up as an issue many times over the years. Even then, I think the holiday-friendly way to push the point might have been to suggest to the group, “*Why don’t we ALL lend a hand so that the clean up done quickly and everyone gets a chance to sit and relax?*” Then you have put the thought out there in a way that is neither passive nor confrontational.
So I do think you were mildly an AH, but I’m going to do what your friend should have done and give you the benefit of the doubt.
NTA
Thank you for such a thorough and thoughtful reply
I always offer. I have friends who really don’t want people mucking around in the kitchen and others who are grateful for the help. Always offer. And at least in my circle, the men help as well.